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Paladin and Fighter Mage Changes

Started by Ross Przybylski, August 02, 2012, 03:52:37 AM MT

Ross Przybylski

Quote from: MagicMissle on August 06, 2012, 01:17:14 AM MT
THANK YOU ROSS! But I still disagree with the stun thing... STUNNED MEANS BY DEFINTION: To deprive of consciousness or strength! So moving and attacking would go against stun because the FM would still have it's strength and consciousness to take actions. I think Relentless should be removed. I'm sorry, but this just won't due... Btw I AM A GRAMMAR NATZI! You can probably tell :D

This is precisely why the Relentless rule has been modified the way it has: to maintain the purpose behind "Relentless" while better balancing it to eliminate unfair advantage.

The Fighter Mage is intended as a front-line combatant. This is why the "Relentless" ability was given to him in the first place. The greatest risk a unit has being within close proximity to an enemy is being trapped and unable to react.

Immunity to stun prevented the trap, but it also gave Fighter Mage some unfair assuredness that his "on the fly" spell casting ability could never be taken away. This advantage is particularly unfair in maps like Circle of Slaughter where proximity to enemies isn't even relevant.

In other words, the strength of the Fighter Mage's ability (as Dies best puts it) is his ability to remain untrapped- to move in to attack and move out if necessary. Immunity from losing spell casting ability is what was over advantageous about Relentless.

From an artistic character perspective, the new role also better fits the archetype of Fighter Mage. When hindered by a trap (stun) he falls back on his instincts as a physical combatant- his abilities to move and attack viciously - rather than the crafty ingenuity of spells.

From this reasoning, I can foresee new abilities for the other mages, such as "Can cast manipulation while Stunned" for the Wizard, and so forth. Depending on how well received the idea is, we might see these injected in future updates as alternative "swappable" powers as the game evolves.
Manager of D20Studios, LLC


The swappable powers are a GREAT idea and I give you my full support on that. But still, the nature of the FM's playing style is as you say, but I still don't agree it is fair. But I must agree to say I am content with your decision, for it is your decision, and the fact that at least something was changed to weaken the FM. Thanks for listening.


Well. Only thing I need clarification on is the "can only move and attack" and bless.

A fighter Mage with access to his abilities and/or sprint would still allow him to defend well against a stun. I think it's good for the move 5 and attack, but anything more is over the top.

With bless, is it going to act exactly like a dispell? Dispell can't remove taunt, which is the one thing that shouldn't be removed via bless. Otherwise taunt becomes a useless talent against a paladin. And I already find the reaver on the weaker side of guardians.

Also you should work on a kick starter to work on new units, more for your board game and advertisements to get more traffic.


Great idea Dies, Ross, how is that new Mage coming along?


Quote from: MagicMissle on August 06, 2012, 06:12:26 PM MT
Great idea Dies, Ross, how is that new Mage coming along?

I'm full of great ideas. I may just no be on game much since i have so many games to play (currently love minecraft) but I took a big interest in this game 3 years back, so I watch / put my input on them on the forums.

He already has a few ideas set up, it's just the graphical cost portion (if I remember right) holding him back.

And now... I have a great idea I can't believe I didn't consider. Re-enact a battle of heromages on minecraft. I actually still remember vividly mine and ross's first game years back. How I won because of a mutinest skeleton trying to unstun his own summoner.


To clarify Ross does the remove all affect things like Taunt and Roar? If it does that's pretty super powered power.

Furgar said to me that he thought the stun should not allow the FM to move or attack but to use spells - as the magic was a separate force that the FM simply channelled.

I'm very excited about the idea, for the future, of selecting powers. And under that banner I want to raise again the notion of increasing the mages power to 8 from the start  - as an option for those looking for a longer battle.

And I hear what you say Dies but I'd still vote for an extra health point for the paladin. Willing to be outvoted.

As to the Minatour however...I'd like to ask for him to be toughened up. Indeed almost to the degree of inbalance. Here is my thinking - he's special and really hard to get. As a result he should be really good on the field and much though I love his furry ass I have to concede that he isn't.

He's a bit soft and squishy and surely should have at least one more armour point to put him level with the bard. How can a singer of songs justify 14 when Mr Fluffy (as he has become known in some circles) can only muster 13?

And before people point to the barbarian let me point out that the barbarian has a reliable power with his sprint where as the minatours roar is diced. Thus less predictable. Balancing that with one extra armour point would make this special character special for a little longer on the battlefield.


Sorry I missed some responses before I replied, apologies.

Dies makes a good point, as usual, and the FM should at least lose his sprint when stunned. That makes sense - his senses are assaulted and he can't concentrate to spell cast (going with your views Ross) but he can lash out and stumble a few feet.

Makes sense.

Thinking about the game how practical is it to build in things like certain creatures get +1's to their dice rolls etc. This might be a simple way to have superior creaters which look the same as the other ones (maybe with a colour change to gold or imperial purple to reflect their extra powers).

It would add a lot of potential mathematically to add small tweaks and twists.


To balance a paladin at 6 hp would require a reduction in def. to compensate.

Yes the Minotaur could use 1 more defense. He is at the bottom with the reaver (in my opinion). To make him a little more feasible.


2012: Ross

QuoteChange the order of Relentless and Augment Superior (or Flash).

2009: Iamsock

QuoteThe way that I see the Fighter Mage right now and with his current abilities, he benefits more from the spells that are not augmentation based. Particularly, manipulation and destruction spells (maybe even summon as well, as they tend to be just as deadly as some destruction spells).

It's fairly easy to get into a position (teleport or flash) to either set up a turn with a high probability to kill an opposing mage with destruction/summons or wound him enough to imprison/sleep/ice shards and set up a kill next turn (provided he isn't also a fighter mage). God help the poor mage if you have a mana surge in there as well.

None of the above are augmentation spells, but in my mind they are the usual MO of the Fighter Mage. What I think would help the situation, without actually hurting the Fighter Mage significantly would be to switch the 0 valor and 10 valor abilities.

Think about how willing you'd be to be to put your Fighter Mage in danger early on in the game if you were just as able to be beat upon, time walked (stunned) and then beat upon again.

I think this would promote a more natural growth of the Fighter Mage over time/valor. Sending in buffed guardians to earn valor, growing into a major physical attack threat. All of the other mages have a 0 valor passive that adds something to their respective magic, and I think that switching the 0 and 10 valor abilities wouldn't unbalance things at all. Personally, I would rather have to face a majorly buffed end game hero than one that can jump a mage and easily live to talk about it right off the bat.